Recent Posts

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Open Discussions / Re: Test
« Last post by Birko19 on November 23, 2015, 06:34:10 PM »
Yea I have a pending test for F1092, if that's negative I'll move onto the other ones.
Open Discussions / Re: Test
« Last post by UnderGrounder on November 22, 2015, 05:07:39 AM »

Another SNP available for you is at FamilyTreeDNA is PF7499.

Other SNPs are available at

Those are the most important SNPs for those who are M124+, L295-, F1092-:

1- The "Father" of  (L295) is (FGC18148)
2- The "Grandfather" of (L295) is (Y8766)
3- The "Great-Grandfather" of (L295) is (Y8763 or PF7499)
4- The "Great-Great-Grandfather" of (L295) is (Y12100)

You may see the location of these SNPs in this tree:
Open Discussions / Re: Test
« Last post by UnderGrounder on November 22, 2015, 04:55:14 AM »
Hey Birko,

Glad to see you around too :)

You can order individual SNPs from "advanced SNP order form". You will see it below the tree.

Regarding the L1021 SNP, I think It is a mistake from Family Tree DNA. They should replace it with L295.
Open Discussions / Re: Test
« Last post by Birko19 on November 18, 2015, 10:26:18 AM »
Ok I just got it, kind of confusing how you have to go to your SNP tree to order.

Abdulaziz, with the recent discoveries among some of the WTY members I ordered F1092. I also saw SNP L1021 available under M124, any idea what line that is?

Open Discussions / Re: Test
« Last post by Birko19 on November 17, 2015, 04:02:32 PM »
Good to see the forum back :)

Abdulaziz, did FTDNA stop doing individual SNP testing? I can't seem to find where you order them from, previously it was advanced testing.
Welcome Board / Re: Time to stop lurking...
« Last post by seferhabahir on November 15, 2015, 05:26:18 PM »
Welcome, Tom Cat. I don't think you would be part of a Jewish Diaspora as it looks like that piece of R2 is L295- and represented by the F1092 and F1758 SNPs (and some L288 people). There are a few Arabs in the F1092/F1758 category as well and it appears those SNPs are quite old and predate Jewish history.
Welcome Board / Time to stop lurking...
« Last post by Tom Cat on November 09, 2015, 04:03:29 PM »
It has been some time since I first tested for Y-DNA67 at FTNDA in December 2012. My reasons for testing then were rather different from most people I've read about; when I'm gone it will be too late to get a sample so I wanted to do it as soon as I could. Then I could make sure that my descendants have as much genetic genealogy information about their ancestors as they have paper trail information. Surprisingly to some  (!), my children and some of my grandchildren are showing a genuine interest in stories about the family and my son has taken the Geno2 test. I have also since taken Geno2 and Big-Y. This may be overlap and overkill but better too much than too little while I am still about to swipe a swab!

I am finding it quite hard to keep up with the DNA learning curve, being in my 80s and having had no life sciences background to build on - though I have just over 40 years of conventional genealogy and family history research behind me. What I do know is that my confirmed haplogroup is RL-295 [061- (M124+, Y12100+, PF7499+, Y8766+, V3714+, L295+, L723+, L725+, L724-)] and that my paternal paper trail takes me back to agricultural labourers in Norfolk, England from the middle 18th century. When I saw my results on the R2-M124-WTY chart I was amazed and fascinated to find myself surrounded by very few UK names, with quite a few more in Eastern Europe and lots in the Middle East. If the paper trail is correct, and ignoring the (ever-present) possibilities of NPEs, what on earth brought my paternal ancestors on their long and lonely journey from the Middle East to England? Were they sea traders - Norfolk is a coastal county? Were they Gipsy/Roma travellers? Jewish diaspora? Has anyone any further ideas?

My thanks to Abdulaziz Ali who has given me one or two gentle nudges in the right direction - but it looks as though I have got some way to go yet in understanding and analysing my results. I'd like to have something more than just data to hand on to my family...
R2 Subclades Discovery / The Y8766 / FGC17608 SNP
« Last post by UnderGrounder on October 26, 2015, 12:48:22 AM »

You may find the location of the Y8766 / FGC17608 SNP in this tree:

This SNP can be ordered from at a low price $17.5

This is the direct link for ordering this SNP:

Those who are negative to L295 are recommended to order this SNP.

(If you plan to order this SNP from, let me know so I can note your kit# from FTDNA and link it with your kit# from YSEQ).

I am attaching the latest draft of Haplogroup R2 tree.
R2 Subclades Discovery / Re: The F1092 SNP
« Last post by seferhabahir on September 21, 2015, 09:37:19 PM »
We could take a stab at divergence dates based on Biblical retelling of possible historical events, although this is just conjecture. A lot of sources would place the divergence of Middle Eastern lines that later came to be Jewish and Arab around 4000 years ago (traditions about Isaac and Ishmael). Less open to debate would be the date of the Babylonian exile after the destruction of the First Temple 2600 years ago, and the end of the Gaonic era in Babylonia 1000 years ago.

It's entirely possible that there was a divergence of F1758 about 4000 years ago, and a divergence of Mizrachi and Ashkenazi lines about 1000-1200 years ago, maybe with different Ashkenazi lineages leaving Babylonia at different times (e.g., to start European or Khazarian Talmudic academies, and others leaving after the end of the Gaonim).

My reading of the SNP data indicates a more likely late divergence of Mizrachi and Ashkenazi lineages, meaning more like 1000-1200 years ago instead of 2600 years ago represented by the period of Babylonian exile and subsequent return (of some but not most of those who were exiled). I can't seem to find enough unique SNPs in the Mizrachi and Ashkenazi Big Y results to line up with the earlier date. The STR data is also somewhat consistent with this scenario, as the Arab and Jewish markers at 111 markers are GD 35 or 36, while the available Mizrachi/Iranian and Ashkenazi markers at 67 markers are much closer (usually less than 10) and clearly related much closer in time.
R2 Subclades Discovery / Re: The F1092 SNP
« Last post by seferhabahir on September 21, 2015, 08:35:22 PM »
F1758 appears to be a very old SNP (with F1092 being even older). I have been looking at some of the similarities and differences between F1758 Arab, Mizrachi, and Ashkenazi Big Y test results and what I see is a very old divergence between present day Arab and Mizrachi lines, and then a much later divergence between Mizrachi and Ashkenazi lines. Within the Ashkenazi lines, there appears to be an initial split where most of the Ashkenazi lines are in a single group, except for one line (possibly represented by SNP A691, 7730230 T>C).

Most of the Big Y SNPs that seem to differentiate these lines don't have names yet, only locations, although it appears that in the Arab line of F1758, there are further downstream SNPs F1387+ F2269+ F2756+ F3554+ definitely below F1758 but not found in any Mizrachi or Ashkenazi lines. There are many other unnamed SNPs below F1758 as well that apparently only appear in the Arab line.

A possible SNP that represents all of the F1758 Ashkenazi lines (but not the Mizrachi lines) might be FGC13232, 21973478 G>A. There seem to be at least four different Ashkenazi groups downstream from F1785 and FGC13232, one being A691, and the other three all having at least three unique SNPs in each group. The Mizrachi line also has several unique SNPs as to be expected, since it continued to be genetically isolated (in Babylonia/Persia) after the divergence that leads to lineages represented by a more recent Eastern European presence). I'll try to draw some kind of picture of all this when I have time.

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