R2 Slovak

[r2slovak]

My brother just tested R2 with Family Tree DNA.  All known historical relatives are from a small village in eastern Slovakia called Davidov where the Fejko name continues.  All known relatives attend(ed) the Greek Catholic church there.  Mom was a J1.
My brother has no 12-25 marker matches yet.  He is the only R2 in the Slovak project so far.
This is fun.

[Birko19]

Welcome and be ready for the Gypsy accusations

[Rhyndakos]

lol 

Welcome.

[r2slovak]

That is very funny.      Growing up in Canada, our parents threatened us (with a smile) that if we weren't good, the gypsies would come and steal us.  I remember watching the Shirley Temple "Heidi" movie in horror! 
My ancestors were important in their community - my great grandfather was once mayor and my dad's nephew is mayor now so they didn't live like the surrounding Romas. (no offence to the Roma intended) I visited in the village 2006 for the first time and there was a distinct line drawn between the villagers and the Roma.  It was sad to observe from an outsider's view.
My mom's family is from Davidov way far back too.  I loved the documentary "The journey of Man" which ends with participants saying the various countries their parents were from -  particularly the Slovak lady who ends the scene by saying "I am Slovak, that's it."  I really related to that....until my DNA came back!
From what I have read, R2 is in only a very small percentage of Roma and higher in Sinti.  Is that correct?
By the way, the technical side of DNA is gibberish to me so I will need lots of help.

[Birko19]

Yes you are correct, only a tiny community of Gypsies tested high in R2 and this test was not even carried out in Europe, but rather in Central Asia (Uzbekistan), so in a way I sort of doubt the accuracy of whether these were pure Gypsies like the Roma or a mixture, not to mention the Sinti themselves are not even Roma nor do they speak the same language as the Roma.

In any case, the Roma in Europe have been tested in a major study and they lack R2, specially in your case and the case of most European R2's, the Roma are clearly not the source of your haplogroup but I do believe that it's an eastern haplogroup in general (Eastern in the sense east of Iran), so the ancestor could have come from that part of the world thousands of years ago.

[r2slovak]

Thank you Birko- that was quite informative.
I see that there is a special on at Family Tree to upgrade to 67 markers.  My brother has only 37 so far.  Since he has no matches at any level anyway, what would be the benefit to us or the group to get up to 67?
And thanks again for your reply.

[Birko19]

Well the whole point of testing for more markers is to determine the genetic distance with others, genetic distance gives you an estimate of time-line for when the common ancestor might have lived, keep in mind that this is an estimate and is NOT written on stone, it could be right but it also could be way far off, so whatever results you get I would not take it seriously unless the genetic distance is 5 and less at a 67-marker comparison.

Here's how you determine the genetic distance, let's assume we have the two 12-marker samples for argument's sake:

You --> R2:14   23   14   10   13   18   12   12   13   13   10   28
Me  --> R2:14   23   14   10   13   18   12   13   11   13   10   29   

The way to compare between the two is to check out the differences between vales, in our case we notice differences in 3 values, so we have:

You --> 12   13   28
Me  --> 13   11   29

You take whatever is the difference between the values, so the difference between 12 and 13 is 1, that's 1 genetic distance right there, the difference between 13 and 11 is 2, then the last one is 28 and 29 so 1 difference between them, adding them all together we have a 4 genetic distance on 12 markers, now we look at the online calculator to calculate the amount of generation difference for the common ancestor (Estimated of course):

http://www.dnacalculator.org/tmrcaCalculator.php

You will get the estimated results there, later on when you learn more use this tool instead:

http://www.mymcgee.com/tools/yutility.html

Keep in mind that these are not written on stone, there are a lot of factors such as the mutation rate, the method of calculation, and what not, the mutation change is random, so you could have a father and a son with 66/67 match (1 genetic distance) yet a 6th cousin with a 67/67 (Perfect match), so it's all sort of random.

[Eshaghpo]

Welcome R2 Slovak.  Davidov means son of David in Russian I believe, yes?  Are there a lot of Jews from that area?

[r2slovak]

Hello Eshaghpo.  I have a Slovak pamphlet on Davidov given to me by my cousin but I can't read it!  I will use Google translate and my dictionaries and try make that connection this evening but I am sure I am sure you are right.  The name has changed many times over the years :  1361 Dauihaza, 1399 Dauidwagasa, 1458 Dewith, 1773 Dawidow, 1808 Davidowee, and 1920 Davidov but they seem to have the same root.
All the graveyards were destroyed in the war and if you look online you will see someone has posted a photo of the only new Jewish headstone amongst the ruins.  I think more Jewish lived there in the past than now.  It is sad to think how many lives were lost in the war or how many left.  My father remembered that my great grandmother lost her family to a sickness in the village and was taken in by a Jewish family at the age of seven.   I know there were more but I don't know how many.  Regardless, I have a LOT of Jewish matches on my own MtDNA  which is J1. I would certainly welcome this as part of my heritage from way back on both sides.  My daughter will marry a very nice Jewish man next week.  I look forward to returning to Davidov one day and have many questions answered.

[r2slovak]

Eshaghpo:   To further answer your question, the pamphlet I was given was produced in 1998.  It said there was 580 residents:  530 Greek Catholic, 30 Roman Catholic, and 20 Jewish residents.

[Eshaghpo]

Thanks for your response, my bias is that it is entirely possible that R2 from your family's ancestral home may have Jewish roots....  Maybe dentate will weigh in with his thoughts.

[Rhyndakos]

I think he is not close enough to the Jews...the Jews are usually pretty close to each other, he is not really close to them.

[Eshaghpo]

Good point